The joys of Openreach. Not.

I do IT. I do VoIP. I provide customers with broadband to run their computers and phones.

 The common denominator I have no option but to use is the part of BT plc known as Openreach. A new VoIP customer of mine has a BT Redcare alarm service on a BT Business analogue phone line. We wanted to put broadband on the line. Their literature says this is ok. I place the order through my usual supplier, AAISP. They usually provide a new broadband service via BT Wholesale.

 After it goes live I then request a migration to TT Wholesale as they are generally better and more flexible. The Broadband went live via BTW the Friday before last, but was subject to horrendous packet loss. It finally stabilised and was acceptable on monday monrning. Then came the migration to Talk Talk Wholesale last Friday.

 It should normally be a transparent, painless migration, but this has been (and still is) excruciating. 

1) The migration should have happened last Friday. It didn't. It completed at 23:10 on Sunday night. BT were very late.

 2) Migration shows as complete. No sync on the Talk Talk dsl.

 3) Monday morning. Line checked for dial tone. Faint, crackly dial tone. No calls able to be made in or out. No ADSL. Redcare - working fine.

 4) Raise a PSTN fault with BT Business. Line showing disconnected near customer premises. Redcare still fine. very odd.

 5) Today, Tuesday. BT shows up. fixes the dodgy line - and we have dialtone. Calls are now fine in and out. But Redcare is now dead, sir. It died when BT fixed the line fault. GRRRR! but good news - The ADSL line went straight in sync when the line was fixed. Bad News - no PPP. GRRRR.

 I thus drive to customer (50 mile round trip), swap the modem into another adsl line. We have Sync and PPP. Customer hardware is thus fine. TT Wholesale provisioning - Fail.

 Can't raise the fault on BT RedCare because BT (Openreach) has not closed the fault properly. Current status:

 PSTN line - \o/
 ADSL sync - \o/
 ADSL PPP - /o\
 RedCare - /o\

 so on this circuit we have: BT Business PSTN. BT RedCare. AAISP internet on TalkTalk Wholesale. VoIP from me, TxRx Communications Ltd.

All of these are dependant on the incumbent monopoly which is BT plc. We have A total shambles, with BT breaking things when they do anything with their aging copper wiring. Scary to think the whole of the UK telecoms network is dependant on corroded Krone strips and dodgy jelly crimps. Ho Hum. Grrrr.

The mechanics of a PPI call - the call transcript itself, redacted to protect the guilty!

Appendix B – Full call transcript of call

Originator's number: 0843-4101111

called number: 01zzz-zzzzzzz

Date 7^th July 2013

Time 11:08

Me: Hello.

Steve: Hello.

Me: Hello.

Steve: Are you Mr. Mouse?

Me: Who's calling please?

Steve: Good morning, sir. My name is Steve. I'm calling you from Company A and today we are calling you to refund your loan insurance money back to you.

Me: Oh, yeah.

Steve: Yeah, because if you recall you had a personal loan in the past which you fully paid off.

Me: Okay.

Steve: Remember.

Me: I hear you. Yes. Yes.

Steve: Remember your ... So, your personal loan for your home improvement or for your car?

Me: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah, is the personal loan for your home improvement or for your car?

Me: For my car, I think.

Steve: Okay. And sir, as, as I told you it's only a rough verification call and the best part of this call is that you need not to provide us any kind of confidential or financial details like your credit card number, your account number or any registration number, nothing like that. And you need not to pay a single penny from your pocket. And as for the information, you have paid 1265 pounds extra on your personal loan and that money we are going to refund with 8% interest and the compensation of mis-selling. So, in the total, you will be getting around 3300 pounds.

Me: All right. Okay.

Steve: And that is the average amount you'll reclaim. Okay?

Me: Okay. So, how, how do I do that?

Steve: Actually, sir, it's a legal process. First, we will send you each and every details by writing and that's the paperwork. After receiving those paperwork, you will just need to do through it, sign it and send it back and we will refund your money.

Me: Okay. That's great. Thank you.

Steve: Otherwise, there is no obligation. And we're sending you the correct paperwork. Sir, we need only few details, few rough details about the loan so that we can send you the correct paperwork. Do you recall, sir, when, you took out this car loan. Who was the loan with? Was it Barclays, Lloyds, TSB...?

Me: I think it was Barclays.

Steve: Absolutely fine, sir. As I told you, sir, you will be getting an amount of 3,300 pounds. So, uh, uh, but it's on roughly 5,000 pounds loan amount. For your loan amount was roughly five or more than that?

Me: I think it was about, I think it was about 6,000.

Steve: Absolutely fine, sir. The same profile is over here that if you got the car loan from Barclays, taken out in 2005, paid it off in 2008 with the loan amount of 6,000 pounds.

Me: Correct. Yes.

Steve: And so, my senior supervisor here and he will assist you further, bear with him.

Me: Okay. Thank you.

Ryan: Hello.

Me: Hello, there.

Ryan: Hi. Is this Mr. Mouse speaking?

Me: Yes, it is. How can I help?

Ryan: Hi, sir. Uh, this is Ryan. I'm one of the senior supervisor with PPI Department calling here. And just now you're speaking to one of my colleagues. You had a personal loan in the past with Barclays Bank, is that right?

Me: Yeah, that's correct. Yes.

Ryan: Great. And on the loan of yours, sir, you also paid for PPI, that is for your Payment Protection Insurance which you never used.

Me: Yeah.

Ryan: And you never claimed and you never got money back refunded?

Me: Yeah. I think so, yes.

Ryan: That's one of the reasons today we have contacted you to let you know that now you are fully entitled with this, all the insurance money back.

Me: Okay.

Ryan: And just to inform you, our average amount of reclaim is over 3,000 pounds, maybe more or maybe less, sir. But 3,000 pounds is the average amount reclaim for our customer, okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: And so, the reason behind refunding this money back to you is because what happened last ten years, not only you, like you, sir, there are millions of people who have been mis-sold by this insurance.

Me: Okay.

Ryan: Yeah. Then, there's someone like you are in the loan. They were never ever informed and they were never ever answered by the lender. If they needed the insurance or they wanted to add this.

Me: Okay.

Ryan: Just simply added this insurance on the loan without the consent and without the knowledge. And later on, they will close. They have to have it. It's a compulsory. It's part of the loan package, okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: Actually, which you are in, sir, which was an illegal and that's one of the reasons it's been announced by the High Court and the Ministry of Business of U.K. that whosoever has a loan in the last ten years back can go ahead and make a claim for the insurance. So, Mr. Mouse, it's now your turn.

Me: Okay.

Ryan: You will be going to get back all the insurance money along with 8% interest as a compensation. And sir, the good news and the best part of this call is that you don't have to pay even a single penny for the service right now as we are a company strictly working on win, no fee basis.

Me: Okay.

Ryan: You don't need to provide any kind of your banking details or credit card number, your bank account, your bank statement, and also, sir, we don't accept any kind of [inaudible] also from our customer's side as you don't have to pay any kind of offering fee to us. In a way, it's totally free from our customer's side, just to verify you are the right person or not who is going to get the money back, okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: So, Mr. Mouse, now you are fully in cycle for our criteria. And we are a company fully regulated by Ministry of Business in respect. Operated the claims management activities. What we're going to do is now, first of all, we are going to send you each and everything in writing. All the legal documents, all the literature in the post which you will receive within a couple of working days in your mailing address, okay?

Me: Okay. Great. Thank you.

Ryan: Once your receive, once you receive the paperwork, Mr. Mouse, all you have to do is just have a good look over that, read across, do all the verification for your satisfaction when you are satisfied and if you think it is beneficial for you, then only you have to go ahead and sign those papers, send us back in the prepaid envelope we provide. We will write over and proceed with claim and refund your money as soon as possible. You don't have to go anywhere. You don't have to do whatsoever. Everything will be done by ourselves, okay?

Me: Okay. Thank you.

Ryan: So, Mr. Mouse, I'll send you each and everything in writing. One of my claim adviser, one of our verification officer is on the line with me. We'll only confirm, we'll only ask you a four basic qualifying question from my side.. Nothing confidential, sir. Only the best you could give is okay, which I'm going to provide you right now before it's now, sir, it's confirmed. I have a home contact number of 01xxx-xxx xxx

Me: Yup, that's correct.

Ryan: And is this the best number to contact or do you have any alternative number?

Me: Um, no. This, this number is the best number to reach me on.

Ryan: That's really fine. This is fine. And your postcode of MM1 UBF.

Me: That's correct.

Ryan: And that's coming, sir, zzzzzz in yyyyy in Borchester, Hampshire.

Me: Yes. That's correct. Yes.

Ryan: And the number 31, you're residing, right?

Me: Yup. That's right. And the last name is Mouse

Ryan: Yeah. And your first name is Mickey?

Me: Yeah, that's right. Yes.

Ryan: And it's Mickey Mouse, right? And Mr. Mouse, one of my advisers will ask you this from where you took out this loan, who was the loan with and please say it was a personal loan to car from Barclays. The loan amount was roughly 6,000 pounds, 2000 2005, And you paid off in 2008, okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: And you never missed your payment. You always pay your monthly repayment on time, okay?

Me: Correct. Yes.

Ryan: And then, after, they will ask you a very important question. Do you remember of having a PPI Insurance on the loan. Here, it says in the paperwork, and to reclaim your money back, you have to say yes. So, Mr. Mouse, be sure, be confident and tell them in a positive manner to my adviser, "Yes, I definitely had a PPI, Payment Protection Insurance, on my loan which I never used, never claimed, and never got money back refunded." Okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: That is the truth, Mr. Mouse, you never got money refunded, right?

Me: I think that's correct, yes.

Ryan: Yeah. And one more thing, sir. In case my adviser asks you how you realize or when did you became aware that you had a PPI on the loan, you have to say, "The PPI Insurance was a compulsory." Okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: Mr. Mouse please keep in mind the word compulsory and it defines the rest of the answer. You only have to say, "The PPI Insurance was a compulsory," and it was added to your loan as a part of the loan package, okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: Okay. And tell them that you went out and got the loan from Barclay's Bank, the bank people told you or bank people insist you that PPI is a compulsory. It's a part of the loan, you have to have it. Okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: Like I said, Mr. Mouse, after verifying business of your loan, one of my claim adviser will send you each and everything in writing. Once you received the paperwork, take your own time, make your own decision, you are absolutely under no obligation. It's all up to you whether this claim should be go ahead or not, okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: Sir, as a part of the verification, I need to confirm are you in are you in arrears or any kind of IVA, debt management or have you ever filed bankruptcy, sir?

Me: No, I haven't. No.

Ryan: Now, God bless you. Have you ever claimed on the PPI because you lose a job or had been sick or had an accident happened, sir?

Me: Never happened. No.

Ryan: I have your previously made a complaint for miss selling PPI to the Barclay's Bank?

Me: Uh, no.

Ryan: Okay. And have your claim been rejected by any other law firm or claim management company before?

Me: Not that I recall. No.

Ryan: Okay. So, as you have a very strong claim for miss selling PPI, Mr. Mouse, and you'll get your money back as soon as possible. I would like to recommend you. Don't say to my adviser, like I can't remember or I'm not sure about the PPI or I just don't realize it in this call or I provide you all the information. In this case, sir, they might disqualify you and end you and they won't be able to send in the paperwork as well as you might be losing your hard earned money which I don't like after getting so close because if you are disqualified today, it will be very very difficult for you to claim back in the future, okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: But be sure on each and every answer and be sure with the PPI. Tell them you definitely had a PPI because it was a compulsory and it was a part of the loan package, okay?

Me: Okay.

Ryan: All right. So, would you please hold the line for only ten seconds and I can connect this call to one of my claim adviser in the same line.

Me: Okay. Thank you.

Ryan: Speak to him and they'll send you some paperwork. Please be on line, okay? I'm gonna be back. Hold the line.

Me: Thanks.

------Long wait with music on hold and call queue----------------

Dan: Hello, this is Dan.

Ryan: Hi, Dan. It's Alex at Company A , I have a reference here

Dan: Yeah.

Ryan: It's uh, xxxxxx.

Dan: xxxxxx?

Ryan: Yeah.

Dan: Uh, Mr. Mickey Mouse?

Ryan: That's right.

Dan: Put him through please.

Ryan: Sure. Mr. Mouse.

Me: Yeah, hello.

Ryan: Thank you so much for your patience. Please talk to my adviser, Dan now. He will assist you further to claim your money back, okay?

Me: Thank you very much.

Ryan: Thank you so much.

Me: Thanks. Hello?

Dan: Hi. Hi, Mickey. Through to Dan from Company B. How are you doing today?

Me: Yes. I'm good. Thank. I'm sorry, who, who, uh, which company are you? From Company B or ...

Dan: From the Company B.

Me: Oh, okay.

Dan: Yeah, okay. Just before we go any further. I need to confirm that you've not received the cold call from ourselves or an unsolicited text, and you are happy to talk to me regards your claim today, is that right?

Me: Oh, well, it was an unsolicited call.

Dan: Yeah, an unsolicited text or a cold call?

Me: Well, it was a telephone. It was a telephone call.

Dan: Yeah, but I mean, you've not received the cold call from myself?

Me: Uh, from you, no. Uh, you rang me.

Dan: Okay, that's fine. That's fine. Yeah, no problem. Um, right. So, how much did you borrow with Barclays then, Mickey?

Me: Well, I think it was about 7,000.

Dan: Right. Okay. And when did you roughly take that out and pay it off?

Me: Uh, oh, about 2006, something like that.

Dan: That's fine. And when did you roughly pay that off?

Me: Uh, about 2008, from memory. I can't remember exactly.

Dan: But do you know if you had PPI or you're not quite sure?

Me: Oh, probably. Pretty certainly.

Dan: Okay. Have you ever tried to claim your money back through Barclays or any other company before?

Me: No, I haven't. No.

Dan: Are you in any sort of debt management, IVA or had been declared bankrupt?

Me: Nope. Nope. Nope.

Dan: Superb. And you've not been asked or influenced to give me false information today at all?

Me: I'm sorry?

Dan: You've not been asked or influenced to give me false information today at all?

Me: No. I don't think so.

Dan: No. Okay. Do you have any paperwork left on your loan at home anywhere?

Me: Probably not, since I've probably thrown it away, but, um ...

Dan: Oh, that's fine. That's fine. No problem. Uh, Mickey. We have got a company who can help you. What I'm gonna do is get them online now. I'm gonna get your claim started, is that all right?

Me: Yup.super... .

Dan: Yeah. So, hold on a minute.

-------------------- music on hold --------------------

Vicky: Hi, Mr. Mouse.

Me: Yes. Hello, there.

Vicky: Hi. This is Vicky at Company C. How are you doing today?

Me: Yes, I'm good. Thank you. So, what was the name of your company? Vicky at?

Vicky: It's Company C.

Me: Okay.

Vicky: I understand you've just been having a quick chat with Dan at the Company B team.

Me: Yeah.

Vicky: And he's just transferred you through to me Just to see if we can sort of have a little chat about your Barclays loan and see if we can get a claim up and running to claim you some money back.

Me: Okay.

Vicky: Um, so is it a loan with Barclays that you had?

Me: I believe it is. It's awhile back. So, I can't remember exactly. I think it was Barclays.

Vicky: Lovely.. And I've been given the details it's for uh ...

Me: Hello? Hello? Hello? I think I've lost you. Hello?

Tales of a junk call

The other night I had a cold call from a prerecorded message telling me I'd get compensation for mis-sold PPI.  another one!

So I played along to try and find out who is behind this pestilence of modern society.

I pressed 5 to indicate interest.  I spoke to a chap from the "PPI Claims Helpline"  who asked me a few questions, presumably to check I was genuine.

I then got transferred to the company handling the claim.  I continued to pretend to be interested and managed to get the company name, telephone number and agent's name. Dinner was ready, so I cut the call short.

I then wrote to the company and sent them an invoice.  Correspondence below:

Dear Sirs

Last night I received an unsolicited telephone call from your company to
my business line 01256 xxxxxx.  This number has been registered with the
TPS for many years.

I get a significant number of calls from PPI diallers. As the call is
illegal, I always try to establish enough information by engaging the
caller in conversation in order to try and find out who is making these
repeated, unsolicited, calls to my number. I must remind you that such
calls are an offence under Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC
Directive) Regulations 2003.

By engaging your caller, xxxxxx in conversation, I was able to
identify your company as the organisation on whose behalf this call was
made.

My normal consulting charges are £120 + VAT for the first hour or part
thereof.  Any further unsolicited calls from your organisation will
constitute a binding contract between our companies under our standard
terms for which my standard consulting rates will also apply. i.e. for
calls lasting up to one hour our standard £120 + VAT charge will apply.

As a telecommunications consulting business, your call call last night
involved significant work by me to find out who was behind this illegal
activity and reporting to the appropriate authorities, for which I am
now seeking compensation.

Under Section 30 (1) of The Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC
Directive) Regulations 2003 I am entitled to seek compensation for
damages due to your lack of compliance with the regulations.  I am thus
invoicing you for damages to the value of my time taken for the call,
and subsequent work in the follow-up.

Dear Mr Robinson

Thank you for your complaint regarding the call process from last night, we
take compliance issues very seriously unlike a lot of companies in our
industry. However I must point out we do not make outbound dialler calls in
this process, we are only a recipient of direct transfers after clients have
consented to speak with us and you must have spoken with another
company/person prior to talking to our advisor xxxxxxxxx and expressed
your wish to talk with our advisor.

Having traced your number transfer it came from a consented dialler data
batch operated by zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzas part of our agreement with them they should only be
operating on consented data where they can prove they have the correct right
to contact you and if you write to them they will forward on any consent on
to you directly.

We ourselves did not initiate the initial call in an un compliant way as
without consenting directly you would never have been spoken to by a
representative of our company, however I can only apologise that you were
contacted incorrectly as you state by zzzzzz if indeed they do not have the
correct consent.

I hope this information is of use to you in assisting to stop the calls.

Dear Mr Rea

Thank you for your response.

Unfortunately the issue in law is that whoever made the call on your
behalf, to a number that is listed in the Telephone Preference Service,
your company is still liable for the breach as they were acting on your
instructions.

I have listened again to the recording of the call. Since the call was
received from "the PPI help line" (Did they lie to me?) and was then
transferred over to Ms zzzz, as far as I am concerned it was a call
from and on behalf of your company.

In view of the above I would be grateful if you would arrange to settle
the outstanding invoice within the terms stated in order to avoid
further action.

Hi Mr Robinson,

As we are informed all clients are opt in and consented we have requested a
copy of your opt in and consent record, if this has been indicated then
obviously as you are aware this over-rules any TPS listing.

If they are unable to provide this then they are not adhering to our
agreement and we will have recourse on your behalf.

regards

 Dear Mr Rea

I await the outcome of your investigation with considerable interest, as
I cannot conceive of any circumstance under which permission would have
been granted to you by me to make pre-recorded 'junk' calls to my
telephone number.

Clearly if your supplier has not adhered to the agreement you have with
them then you can no doubt seek remedy from them.

Until such time as evidence of consent and opt-in materialises, our
compensation claim stands and is due for payment by bank transfer to our
account before 2nd April 2013. Our bank details are on the invoice.

Subject: Re: Unsolicited Telephone call 18th March 2013

Dear Mr Rea and Mr Osborne

I trust that you have drawn a blank of uncovering the consent/opt-in to call
my telephone number from your subcontractor, as it is not a consent I would
ever have given and the number has been registered for many years on the
TPS.

On this basis I would be grateful if you would settle the outstanding claim
for damages before the invoice due date.

I attach a copy of the invoice for reference. 

 Hi Mr Robinson

We have had the following response from our data provider which they assure
me complies with TPS regulations should they be unable to provide you with
what you request please let us know immediately however they assure us they
will have the consent, by providing you with direct access to our data
controller we are fulfilling our obligations.

Please keep me posted.



Hi,
As you are not the data provider, the person in question will need to make
the request to us.


Kind regards,

zzzzz
Customer Service Manager
zzzzz (call generation company) 

Dear zzzzz

As you are aware from your customer yyyyyyy, I received
an unsolicited 'junk' call on 18th March on their behalf.

Please provide them and me with the details you hold that makes you
believe that the call originated to 01256-xxxxxx was in compliance with
the legislation.  This number has been on the TPS "do not call" list for
many years.  I believe that calling this number without specific consent
or 'opt-in' from me represents an offence.

I look forward to hearing from you.

When an upgrade is an "upgrade"

Well I have to say I'm annoyed. Here is the analogy. I buy a brand new car. The salesman shows me the aircon, satnav, ABS and electric windows. I like it. I like it a lot. In fact, I like it so much that I buy it.

Six months later, I get a letter from the garage for a free service. I take the car in. Yes, I get the free service. But what was not clear to me is that as part of the free se

rvice, they remove the aircon, and instead attach a little electric fan to the dashboard, as it's supposed to be better. I am very cross.

Anyhow, this is how I feel after letting Apple trash my Ipad with the IOS6 "upgrade". I bought the Ipad specifically because it had Google maps. It is what I used most, especially for business. Sorry Apple, you have lost a fan. Apple maps is a poor imitation, with half of Basingstoke a blur in the satellite view. So the main reason I bought it (to help spot trees and obstructions on my wireless installations) is now not possible. Apple, you have not made many friends here. Apple, resolve your spat with Google, or you may face legal action from your disgruntled ipad users. It is an avenue I have not ruled out myself.

Caveat Emptor - a salutory tale of a Telecomms shark

It is not often I feel annoyed enough to put pen to paper.

Yesterday a customer of mine (Let's call him Jim) told me he'd switched internet providers, and moved from BT to 5Gcomms.  Not normally a cause for much comment.  However, I provide some services to him and he did not check with me that the new provider was suitable.

He rang me to tell me that since the switch, the services I provide were not working on the new routers.  However, further digging into the details started to ring alarm bells.

After a cold sales call at his business premises, lasting over 5 hours, the new provider had signed Jim's company up to a three year contract, with a 36 month notice period!.  Jim took lots of assurances from the salesman, but did not read the small print on the back. By small, I mean microscopic, in light grey, which in A4 normal print runs to 12 pages!  Here is a link to the contract, which in material respects seems to be the same as what Jim signed:
http://www.5gcomms.com/assets/files/pdf/5G-tc.pdf

If I had not pointed this out, he would have waited 3 years to give notice, which would then run for a further 3 year period!  Jim has now given them 36 months notice of termination, which 5G were very unhappy about. Not a good start to a 3-year 'enforced' commercial relationship!

Not only is there no getout clause, but in Clause 2.2 they also make it clear that you are not to use any other provider of services for which they also have a comparable service. Is Jim in breach of the contract by using existing services? Could they now sue Jim for use of other VoIP service and his mobiles?  Who knows?  Will they? Who knows!

Is the contract legally enforcable?  Probably. Is it deliberately constructed to trap the unwary? I'm not a lawyer, but it looks very carefully crafted to achieve that aim. Is is fair? In my opinion, certainly not.  It raises serious ethical issues about the types of people who deliberately seem to mislead and hoodwink without giving you a chance to digest what you are signing.

Can Jim get out of the contract?  Almost certainly not. Is the service actually any good?  No idea.  Too early to tell but so far no problems now I've installed a suitable router.  Was Jim foolish to sign the contract without reading it?  Oh yes. But in the face of such high-pressure sales techniques would I have done the same? I hope not.  I hope you will think VERY carefully before signing a contract with anyone.  There are sharks out there.  I don't know how they sleep at night.  But if anyone from any telecomms company pays you a visit and insists you sign on the day without giving you a chance to read through the details of the contract carefully, politely show them the door.  Walk away. Just walk away.

CAVEAT EMPTOR.